would love to see more artists go on nyt popcast like addison rae did recently, you can rly tell the difference between the jake shanes of the world and real journalists
those 2 NYT guys have the worst, most arrogant personalities ever. always interrupting, always think they’re saying something smart. i tried and tried but i just can’t watch anything with them - their air of know-it-all-ism is just too much.
Please, they did an interview with Ethel Cain 3 days before her album came out and they talked about her recent drama and tumblr for like 45 out of the 50 minutes
I love your point about how friction can be useful or sometimes necessary... as you put it, "required"... totally agree. Lowe, particularly, has always really irked me, too, and after having recently watched a couple of Shane interviews for the first time, I really feel the fatigue with music media and almost a little grossed out at the strange... sometimes useless, pandering sixty, ninety minute conversations. Also, I always am so interested in hearing about the actual music and its creation and why certain sonic choices were made, etc. and those moments are virtually nonexistent in... musician interviews...somehow. Anyways, love this piece.
Great article! This is something I've been simmering on for a while and briefly written about too. I also think there's a secondary reason these types of shows have risen so much in popularity which goes back to the other side of the equation: the celebrities and the PR teams. Sure, fandoms at large have absolutely no capacity for nuanced discourse when it comes to their fave but I also think high-profile individuals and their teams are becoming more averse to the idea of 'putting their thoughts out there' in fear of being cancelled or whatever. It's why Roan's interviews can get so heated - she's not afraid to speak her mind even if what she says could get her in trouble. These types of interviews are safe, albeit silly, to these people who ultimately just want us to sell something. It's the perfect storm really.
it’s just so incredibly improbable for these interviewers to truly agree with or enjoy every single thing the celebrities are saying. and it’s so necessary to state disagreements (whether it’s their own, or external societal/culture-wide discourses) in order to progress with the conversation. it adds so much nuance to whatever an artist may be arguing for if they have to actually defend their position after being presented with potential foils to their logic or methodology. like, of course these discussions are one-note and one-dimensional, there’s only ever one opinion being shared.
I completely agree. Not to be mean to these people, but there's something so debasing about this dyanmic. An interesting reversal is Dua Lipa interviewing authors for her book club. I think her being the famous one negates the power imbalance, although she is stll very gracious and kind to her guests. She puts the effort in and the result is an actually insighftul discussion
Dua's Service95 is one of the coolest ventures I've seen from a celeb. Really intentional and incisive. The book club and other curated content is really fantastic.
really interesting to see in older episodes of las culturistas the hosts are snarkier and quicker to call out pop star bullshit but now that they’re rubbing shoulders and apart of the press tour circuit everyone is their best friend lol
This has finally put into words the reason why I detest these kind of interviews. Honestly Zane Lowe and his ilk are a blight upon our planet. They’re so shallow and non-confrontational, it’s hard to watch. Not that I think people should be made uncomfortable in interviews but there’s got to be the space to ask more serious questions or you’ll never find anything interesting out. The interviewer and interviewee should not act like friends.
Really well observed piece. I always used to find it disheartening when the only press a major artist would do was a “let another famous person interview me” collab. This feels like the next step in an artist’s near-complete control of a press cycle
as someone who works at a music magazine, and for an artist at a record label, it's really frustrating seeing the shift from traditional profiles to internet-celebrity-podcast style interviews with artists. the latter seems to fulfil a purpose of creating clippable, viral moments for tiktok, mostly about random tidbits as opposed to their creative process/art -- and the interviewers don't seem to understand *how* to conduct an interview. i've been in label meetings where we have discussed "short form content shows" to book our artist on for the purpose of virality, and it's so disheartening :-(
so fun discovering this post, having had these thoughts as well. I had to stop listening to las culturistas after the ariana grande ep for this very reason. Matt crying to her about "taking care" of bowen ahhhhhhhh
its sad bc I used to love and listen to them and oh well, we all grow out of things! But I did find a lot of meaning and excitement in how they engaged with and loved culture, but its so insidery and safe now. I get it myself, as someone with some proximity to prominent ppl through my work, but I think one has to actively try to moderate that vibe bc it truly does worsen your product
love this post! some great points well articulated that I've been thinking about too. Just a note: please don't use 'spazzes out' as it's insensitive to the disabled community
I write about stan culture and I agree with this. There's a lot made about how critics/interviewers want to avoid the wrath of stans--which I think is a very real phenomenon--but there isn't as much acknowledgement of the industry structure that supports this type of coverage which you've touched on. There were always managers and agents happy to threaten or withhold from critics who didn't perform the way they wanted to, but I think in today's ecosystem that's even scarier because there's less leverage. You have to play nice with more people.
I felt a lot like this too, but moreso that the more interesting stories are come from the creators behind the scenes, not always the hyped-up "stars." I don't have the access nor the reach of these podcasts, but I think I managed to capture a few really interesting stories from unsung creators. Add it to your queue if you need a change:
there’s a place for this topic somewhere amongst the west village girl conversation. i think it has to do with the rise of these influencers - their desire to be liked - their desire to move up the ranks. call themselves “friends” with these celebrities. it’s perhaps not a reach to say people who want fame for fame’s sake (i.e. influencers) are probably insecure and didn’t receive the social validation they needed growing up.
i think it’s an interesting juxtaposition with how the mainstream media has covered palestine. skilled journalists being told to stick to the company line - and journalists complying. a total loss of integrity.
honestly in a world of binaries - petty influencers desperate to rub shoulders, and big corporate overlord-controlled Times New Roman/ivy-league “journalism” …… i choose neither.
would love to see more artists go on nyt popcast like addison rae did recently, you can rly tell the difference between the jake shanes of the world and real journalists
those 2 NYT guys have the worst, most arrogant personalities ever. always interrupting, always think they’re saying something smart. i tried and tried but i just can’t watch anything with them - their air of know-it-all-ism is just too much.
Agreed
Please, they did an interview with Ethel Cain 3 days before her album came out and they talked about her recent drama and tumblr for like 45 out of the 50 minutes
this is sending me 😭😭 they are such jokes
I love your point about how friction can be useful or sometimes necessary... as you put it, "required"... totally agree. Lowe, particularly, has always really irked me, too, and after having recently watched a couple of Shane interviews for the first time, I really feel the fatigue with music media and almost a little grossed out at the strange... sometimes useless, pandering sixty, ninety minute conversations. Also, I always am so interested in hearing about the actual music and its creation and why certain sonic choices were made, etc. and those moments are virtually nonexistent in... musician interviews...somehow. Anyways, love this piece.
Great article! This is something I've been simmering on for a while and briefly written about too. I also think there's a secondary reason these types of shows have risen so much in popularity which goes back to the other side of the equation: the celebrities and the PR teams. Sure, fandoms at large have absolutely no capacity for nuanced discourse when it comes to their fave but I also think high-profile individuals and their teams are becoming more averse to the idea of 'putting their thoughts out there' in fear of being cancelled or whatever. It's why Roan's interviews can get so heated - she's not afraid to speak her mind even if what she says could get her in trouble. These types of interviews are safe, albeit silly, to these people who ultimately just want us to sell something. It's the perfect storm really.
it’s just so incredibly improbable for these interviewers to truly agree with or enjoy every single thing the celebrities are saying. and it’s so necessary to state disagreements (whether it’s their own, or external societal/culture-wide discourses) in order to progress with the conversation. it adds so much nuance to whatever an artist may be arguing for if they have to actually defend their position after being presented with potential foils to their logic or methodology. like, of course these discussions are one-note and one-dimensional, there’s only ever one opinion being shared.
I completely agree. Not to be mean to these people, but there's something so debasing about this dyanmic. An interesting reversal is Dua Lipa interviewing authors for her book club. I think her being the famous one negates the power imbalance, although she is stll very gracious and kind to her guests. She puts the effort in and the result is an actually insighftul discussion
Dua's Service95 is one of the coolest ventures I've seen from a celeb. Really intentional and incisive. The book club and other curated content is really fantastic.
really interesting to see in older episodes of las culturistas the hosts are snarkier and quicker to call out pop star bullshit but now that they’re rubbing shoulders and apart of the press tour circuit everyone is their best friend lol
Tina Fey was right.
https://youtube.com/shorts/n_NInpDZo44?si=aq_PuiDnTbUNj5Br
This has finally put into words the reason why I detest these kind of interviews. Honestly Zane Lowe and his ilk are a blight upon our planet. They’re so shallow and non-confrontational, it’s hard to watch. Not that I think people should be made uncomfortable in interviews but there’s got to be the space to ask more serious questions or you’ll never find anything interesting out. The interviewer and interviewee should not act like friends.
It’s a pattern of behavior that’s corrosive to journalism as a whole.
Really well observed piece. I always used to find it disheartening when the only press a major artist would do was a “let another famous person interview me” collab. This feels like the next step in an artist’s near-complete control of a press cycle
as someone who works at a music magazine, and for an artist at a record label, it's really frustrating seeing the shift from traditional profiles to internet-celebrity-podcast style interviews with artists. the latter seems to fulfil a purpose of creating clippable, viral moments for tiktok, mostly about random tidbits as opposed to their creative process/art -- and the interviewers don't seem to understand *how* to conduct an interview. i've been in label meetings where we have discussed "short form content shows" to book our artist on for the purpose of virality, and it's so disheartening :-(
"masquerades as media, but is really closer to Official Standom" PEEEERIOD diva
in all seriousness I find this trend to be another sign of culture at large becoming less intellectual
so fun discovering this post, having had these thoughts as well. I had to stop listening to las culturistas after the ariana grande ep for this very reason. Matt crying to her about "taking care" of bowen ahhhhhhhh
its sad bc I used to love and listen to them and oh well, we all grow out of things! But I did find a lot of meaning and excitement in how they engaged with and loved culture, but its so insidery and safe now. I get it myself, as someone with some proximity to prominent ppl through my work, but I think one has to actively try to moderate that vibe bc it truly does worsen your product
Thank you for putting into such concise terms why I have always found all of these shows utterly unwatchable. I concur completely.
love this post! some great points well articulated that I've been thinking about too. Just a note: please don't use 'spazzes out' as it's insensitive to the disabled community
I write about stan culture and I agree with this. There's a lot made about how critics/interviewers want to avoid the wrath of stans--which I think is a very real phenomenon--but there isn't as much acknowledgement of the industry structure that supports this type of coverage which you've touched on. There were always managers and agents happy to threaten or withhold from critics who didn't perform the way they wanted to, but I think in today's ecosystem that's even scarier because there's less leverage. You have to play nice with more people.
I felt a lot like this too, but moreso that the more interesting stories are come from the creators behind the scenes, not always the hyped-up "stars." I don't have the access nor the reach of these podcasts, but I think I managed to capture a few really interesting stories from unsung creators. Add it to your queue if you need a change:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/this-is-how-it-starts-with-aimee-stevland/id1616206463
there’s a place for this topic somewhere amongst the west village girl conversation. i think it has to do with the rise of these influencers - their desire to be liked - their desire to move up the ranks. call themselves “friends” with these celebrities. it’s perhaps not a reach to say people who want fame for fame’s sake (i.e. influencers) are probably insecure and didn’t receive the social validation they needed growing up.
i think it’s an interesting juxtaposition with how the mainstream media has covered palestine. skilled journalists being told to stick to the company line - and journalists complying. a total loss of integrity.
honestly in a world of binaries - petty influencers desperate to rub shoulders, and big corporate overlord-controlled Times New Roman/ivy-league “journalism” …… i choose neither.